Curse

Gaile Gray · Oct 01, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Hi,

This thread contains a lot of valuable feedback, and we'll definitely try to address the various concerns here. I wanted to share some information with you about faces and customization. Most importantly, we all need to keep in mind that the Nightfall World Preview Event was a Beta event, which means that what you saw was not final, and that what you viewed may not be the full menu of every single option that you'll be given when the game is released. The Art Team is working on more options and on general improvements of your existing options for you even now.

What this means, though, is that as we improve the options, and possibly expand them, a few of the faces that were offered during the WPE may change a bit. I think everyone's on board with the notion that it was a Beta, and I feel pretty sure that players will not freak out if there are changes, because they'll all realize that any changes are a result of either expanding (if possible) or improving what was on offer during the Beta. (Which is sort of what this thread is about.

) But do be aware that some modest changes to the faces may take place. Hopefully you'll like the little changes here and there. Maybe you'll find one that you like better. Keep in mind that if you find that you prefer another face or hairstyle after all, you have the option to delete and remake the character and you can retain the reserved name if you recreate within one hour. RP characters are reset to Level 1 prior to release, and their items and skills are wiped, so it's pretty much a clean slate if you wish to make changes.

We hope that you'll like the new, improved options at release!

Kakumei · Oct 01, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cineris

There are always those elitists who think playing a one-eyed, one-legged eunuch halfling barbarian is "better roleplaying" than playing a highly muscular warrior. It's not. I'd go further and say that playing something that you don't identify strongly with solely for the purpose of playing it is a gimmick, and thus in my opinion worse than the latter option.

I am in love with you. Have my children please.

I knew there had to be a decent roleplayer on these boards somewhere.

Lawnmower · Oct 01, 2006, 07:02 PM // 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hi,

This thread contains a lot of valuable feedback, and we'll definitely try to address the various concerns here. I wanted to share some information with you about faces and customization. Most importantly, we all need to keep in mind that the Nightfall World Preview Event was a Beta event, which means that what you saw was not final, and that what you viewed may not be the full menu of every single option that you'll be given when the game is released. The Art Team is working on more options and on general improvements of your existing options for you even now.

What this means, though, is that as we improve the options, and possibly expand them, a few of the faces that were offered during the WPE may change a bit. I think everyone's on board with the notion that it was a Beta, and I feel pretty sure that players will not freak out if there are changes, because they'll all realize that any changes are a result of either expanding (if possible) or improving what was on offer during the Beta. (Which is sort of what this thread is about.

) But do be aware that some modest changes to the faces may take place. Hopefully you'll like the little changes here and there. Maybe you'll find one that you like better. Keep in mind that if you find that you prefer another face or hairstyle after all, you have the option to delete and remake the character and you can retain the reserved name if you recreate within one hour. RP characters are reset to Level 1 prior to release, and their items and skills are wiped, so it's pretty much a clean slate if you wish to make changes.

We hope that you'll like the new, improved options at release!

Thanks for explaining that to us.

Someone posted a very interesting suggestion, about letting people with different races being able to start out in different regions! Would it not be great if a Tyrian Necromancer could start out in Elonia, or a Elonian Monk could start out in Cantha, or a Canthan Warrior could start out in elonia?

Cineris · Oct 01, 2006, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hi,

This thread contains a lot of valuable feedback, and we'll definitely try to address the various concerns here. I wanted to share some information with you about faces and customization. Most importantly, we all need to keep in mind that the Nightfall World Preview Event was a Beta event, which means that what you saw was not final, and that what you viewed may not be the full menu of every single option that you'll be given when the game is released. The Art Team is working on more options and on general improvements of your existing options for you even now.

What this means, though, is that as we improve the options, and possibly expand them, a few of the faces that were offered during the WPE may change a bit. I think everyone's on board with the notion that it was a Beta, and I feel pretty sure that players will not freak out if there are changes, because they'll all realize that any changes are a result of either expanding (if possible) or improving what was on offer during the Beta. (Which is sort of what this thread is about.

) But do be aware that some modest changes to the faces may take place. Hopefully you'll like the little changes here and there. Maybe you'll find one that you like better. Keep in mind that if you find that you prefer another face or hairstyle after all, you have the option to delete and remake the character and you can retain the reserved name if you recreate within one hour. RP characters are reset to Level 1 prior to release, and their items and skills are wiped, so it's pretty much a clean slate if you wish to make changes.

We hope that you'll like the new, improved options at release!

Gaile,

Great to know you guys are paying attention to our concerns here, and excellent news that you are working on diversifying the options available some more.

TsunamiZ · Oct 01, 2006, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Hi,

This thread contains a lot of valuable feedback, and we'll definitely try to address the various concerns here. I wanted to share some information with you about faces and customization. Most importantly, we all need to keep in mind that the Nightfall World Preview Event was a Beta event, which means that what you saw was not final, and that what you viewed may not be the full menu of every single option that you'll be given when the game is released. The Art Team is working on more options and on general improvements of your existing options for you even now.

What this means, though, is that as we improve the options, and possibly expand them, a few of the faces that were offered during the WPE may change a bit. I think everyone's on board with the notion that it was a Beta, and I feel pretty sure that players will not freak out if there are changes, because they'll all realize that any changes are a result of either expanding (if possible) or improving what was on offer during the Beta. (Which is sort of what this thread is about.

) But do be aware that some modest changes to the faces may take place. Hopefully you'll like the little changes here and there. Maybe you'll find one that you like better. Keep in mind that if you find that you prefer another face or hairstyle after all, you have the option to delete and remake the character and you can retain the reserved name if you recreate within one hour. RP characters are reset to Level 1 prior to release, and their items and skills are wiped, so it's pretty much a clean slate if you wish to make changes.

We hope that you'll like the new, improved options at release!

Nice to see some official response to this. But, Gaile, you have only mentioned that current faces may change slightly--not that the amount of options expanded upon as this thread is complaining about. And the reason this is brought up before final Nightfall release is because we didn't see an improvement in this area between the Factions preview and Factions final--so it's safe to assume Nightfall is going the same route from the looks of the preview. And the best time to bring attention to this is during pre-sales when people are most vigilant. We are still hoping to see a system where all the face / hair options are unrestricted by chapter to create a larger mixing pot of character appearance options--and a way to change the appearance of exisitng characters without the silly need to delete the characters. Hopefully soon enough so that the Guild Wars game engine is still fresh and competitive, before the next generation of onlines games take over in the future, or even Guild Wars 2.

Gaile Gray · Oct 02, 2006, 02:40 AM // 02:40

Well, remember what they say about "assume," now.

The first thing to know is that we're tracking choices all the time. We know what faces are chosen, which are not chosen, and we're going to use that data to help us bring you more highly-choose-able faces. That's why you have a beta event, to see what works, what needs fixing, what needs expanding and/or improving, and on and on. Beta events are a great proving ground for what we're doing, not only because they prove what we're doing, but because they provide us with information to do it better. Some of the faces will change a little, a few will change radically, to make them more desirable to players. If you think about it, making more of the faces really cool will in effect actually expand the options for popular faces without adding a single one. But in addition, yes, the art team is working on adding more.

As to the request to build a Canthan Warrior in Tyria, or a Elonian Necromancer in Cantha, I honestly do not think that will happen. But first, let me make sure that I understand what you're asking, so by way of doing that, let me explain philosophy: It's is the intention of the game designers that those who support the game have more options. That's fair, just, and appropriate, even if it's not what someone may want to hear. You have the maximum number of options by supporting Guild Wars with the purchase of all three campaigns. Those who do so can make any character from any game.

Now, is the point is that you want to make a complete freedom of choice as far as character "look" by being able to have any character start in any region? I do not think that that is the intention. Character appearance is tied to the region in which a character is "born." I do not believe that it is the intention of the team to have the Tyrian look with an Elonian birthplace, etc. I can ask about this, and certainly I will let you know if that is a possibility in the future. In the back of my mind, I'm not sure that it would be, since each campaign has a lot of advanced and advancing technology, so character creation is actually an evolutionary process. But I'm speaking casually here, and I can ask if any face/any birthplace will someday be as option.

And again, if the request is to give everyone who purchases any single campaign the opportunity to create any appearance from any of the three campaigns, well, I'm sure if you stop and think about it, that's just not good business, and we do have to think about things like that, particularly since we are not and will not be charging a monthly fee.

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2006, 02:53 AM // 02:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

And again, if the request is to give everyone who purchases any single campaign the opportunity to create any appearance from any of the three campaigns, well, I'm sure if you stop and think about it, that's just not good business, and we do have to think about things like that, particularly since we are not and will not be charging a monthly fee.

I assumed that the suggestion was for people who owned each Chapter, those choices would carry over to new Chapters as well.

So, if someone linked Prophecy and Nightfall, they could have the options of faces, hair, etc, from both Prophecy and Nightfall (no matter where they created the Character), but not Factions (since they didn't link Factions to their account). This would actually be another reason for people to want to buy each Chapter!

Now, I can see the artistic point of not having certain faces and skin tones from other Chapters, but perhaps at least the hair could carry over?

Another idea is to not limit the Faces and hair to a particular Profession at all, but allow all Professions to choose from a larger number of faces and hair. This would also decrease the amount of clones for a particular Profession, and at the very least, offer more possible combinations between faces and hair. That's another alternative I'd be happy with.

Again, thanks for reading Gaile, I know this is not a "huge" problem, but it's the little things that makes Guild Wars a great game!

Thallandor · Oct 02, 2006, 02:56 AM // 02:56

Only thing i like to add is: Elementalist gets Afro hair and some other classes get Dreadlocks lol, i like mine pink.

Was really surpirsed when i saw the selection in the character creation screen.

TsunamiZ · Oct 02, 2006, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I assumed that the suggestion was for people who owned each Chapter, those choices would carry over to new Chapters as well.

So, if someone linked Prophecy and Nightfall, they could have the options of faces, hair, etc, from both Prophecy and Nightfall (no matter where they created the Character), but not Factions (since they didn't link Factions to their account). This would actually be another reason for people to want to buy each Chapter!

Now, I can see the artistic point of not having certain faces and skin tones from other Chapters, but perhaps at least the hair could carry over?

Another idea is to not limit the Faces and hair to a particular Profession at all, but allow all Professions to choose from a larger number of faces and hair. This would also decrease the amount of clones for a particular Profession, and at the very least, offer more possible combinations between faces and hair. That's another alternative I'd be happy with.

yep, that's what i mean.

TsunamiZ · Oct 02, 2006, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

As to the request to build a Canthan Warrior in Tyria, or a Elonian Necromancer in Cantha, I honestly do not think that will happen. But first, let me make sure that I understand what you're asking, so by way of doing that, let me explain philosophy: It's is the intention of the game designers that those who support the game have more options. That's fair, just, and appropriate, even if it's not what someone may want to hear. You have the maximum number of options by supporting Guild Wars with the purchase of all three campaigns. Those who do so can make any character from any game.

Now, is the point is that you want to make a complete freedom of choice as far as character "look" by being able to have any character start in any region? I do not think that that is the intention. Character appearance is tied to the region in which a character is "born." I do not believe that it is the intention of the team to have the Tyrian look with an Elonian birthplace, etc. I can ask about this, and certainly I will let you know if that is a possibility in the future. In the back of my mind, I'm not sure that it would be, since each campaign has a lot of advanced and advancing technology, so character creation is actually an evolutionary process. But I'm speaking casually here, and I can ask if any face/any birthplace will someday be as option.

but the idea with restricting face / hair features based on born location takes away the fun and possibilities in character creation--especially in a fantasy game. i think color would indicate the born identity more than face / hair features [except for afros which is mainly african]. if you change the skin / hair color around in any of chapters, you can already get away with saying the character looks tyrian, canthan, elonian--all based on the color. plus we can already see tyrian, canthan, elonian characters running around in all 3 chapters! the face / hair style differences really aren't that major, so why limit the face / hair selection to born location and hinder the players' character creation experience? part of what made guild wars so revolutionary was its highly flexible and changable character skill / weapon options--and why it's a popular online pvp game. for a game this open ended in skill and weapon combinations, it sure isn't very open ended for character appearances. this is a fantasy game. let players openly choose and create their own races and human creatures that they truly want to play--without limitation [based on chapters added to the account]. look at other fantasy / sci-fi characters out there for a change. don't restrict guild wars players' characters to real life Earth features of caucasian, asian, middle eastern, african--then you can call guild wars a fantasy game.

arcanemacabre · Oct 02, 2006, 07:58 AM // 07:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

but the idea with restricting face / hair features based on born location takes away the fun and possibilities in character creation--especially in a fantasy game. i think color would indicate the born identity more than face / hair features [except for afros which is mainly african]. if you change the skin / hair color around in any of chapters, you can already get away with saying the character looks tyrian, canthan, elonian--all based on the color. plus we can already see tyrian, canthan, elonian characters running around in all 3 chapters! the face / hair style differences really aren't that major, so why limit the face / hair selection to born location and hinder the players' character creation experience? part of what made guild wars so revolutionary was its highly flexible and changable character skill / weapon options--and why it's a popular online pvp game. for a game this open ended in skill and weapon combinations, it sure isn't very open ended for character appearances. this is a fantasy game. let players openly choose and create their own races and human creatures that they truly want to play--without limitation [based on chapters added to the account]. look at other fantasy / sci-fi characters out there for a change. don't restrict guild wars players' characters to real life Earth features of caucasian, asian, middle eastern, african--then you can call guild wars a fantasy game.

What Gaile is saying, and I completely agree, is that if you want a Tyrian, Canthan, or Elonian look, then simply start your character in those respective areas. If you have all three games, then you have access to all faces/hair options, you're only limited to which starting area you'll end up in.

The starting areas are just a little push out the door. The rest of the continents are where it's really at, and that you'll have complete free reign with your new character. Tyria has the largest "starting area" since it not only encompasses Pre-Searing, but Ascalon and North Shiverpeaks, effectively. But there, you can get run if you're trying to get to a different continent.

What I think should be done is have some other special 'abilities' or 'features' that depend on your area of 'birth'. Basically, things like fighting style (for warriors/assassins), spellcasting animations, accents (during cutscenes), maybe even differences in the way spells look (like altered minion appearences), all being completely dependant on where your character's starting continent was.

If they really wanted to get detailed, they could also have quests be different depending on your birthplace, and how the NPC's interact with your character. Really give a sense of "you're a foreigner, and you know it".

Gedrand · Oct 02, 2006, 12:17 PM // 12:17

My main concern here was about the male Paragon. I'm not worried about using faces from differing campaigns, because it's appropriate that characters have a regionality about them based on where they're from. I think it's a cool effect.

However, that doesn't mean that everyone from Elona has braids. Just give me one more hairstyle that's a bit different and I'll be happy! Please! I want the Beat It dance!

Thanks for the reply, though, Gaile. I always say that I have faith in Anet to make everything excellent, but I guess that in this one instance I got a bit worried since I have noticed that there did indeed some to be a trend as people had mentioned and, well, I want a Paragon dude

freekedoutfish · Oct 02, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by TsunamiZ

....

...[ Based on the Factions preview event, the Nightfall preview event will likely indicate the final amount of face / hair customizations players will get in the final Nightfall expansion. ]

My guess is its because of the new "animated" faces.

It would take alot more to store information about an animated face, compared to a static one. So their is bound to be less faces in Nightfall.

Plus their probably just running out of ideas.

I agree though, that they should combine existing face and hairstyles with new ones on the creation menu and just build up the collection as they go.

That information already exists in the servers, so it wouldnt add to it.

They only issue would be amending the existing faces to move.

Mordakai · Oct 02, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

What Gaile is saying, and I completely agree, is that if you want a Tyrian, Canthan, or Elonian look, then simply start your character in those respective areas. If you have all three games, then you have access to all faces/hair options, you're only limited to which starting area you'll end up in.

You're missing the point. The point is some players want more variety during the Character creation process.

I don't just want to make a Prophecy character, and then travel to Elonia. I can already do that.

I want the option to make an Elonian faced character in Prophecy, with Faction hair (since I own all three chapters).

And/Or getting rid of Profession specific choices would also help variety.

Lawnmower · Oct 02, 2006, 05:48 PM // 17:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Well, remember what they say about "assume," now.

The first thing to know is that we're tracking choices all the time. We know what faces are chosen, which are not chosen, and we're going to use that data to help us bring you more highly-choose-able faces. That's why you have a beta event, to see what works, what needs fixing, what needs expanding and/or improving, and on and on. Beta events are a great proving ground for what we're doing, not only because they prove what we're doing, but because they provide us with information to do it better. Some of the faces will change a little, a few will change radically, to make them more desirable to players. If you think about it, making more of the faces really cool will in effect actually expand the options for popular faces without adding a single one. But in addition, yes, the art team is working on adding more.

As to the request to build a Canthan Warrior in Tyria, or a Elonian Necromancer in Cantha, I honestly do not think that will happen. But first, let me make sure that I understand what you're asking, so by way of doing that, let me explain philosophy: It's is the intention of the game designers that those who support the game have more options. That's fair, just, and appropriate, even if it's not what someone may want to hear. You have the maximum number of options by supporting Guild Wars with the purchase of all three campaigns. Those who do so can make any character from any game.

Now, is the point is that you want to make a complete freedom of choice as far as character "look" by being able to have any character start in any region? I do not think that that is the intention. Character appearance is tied to the region in which a character is "born." I do not believe that it is the intention of the team to have the Tyrian look with an Elonian birthplace, etc. I can ask about this, and certainly I will let you know if that is a possibility in the future. In the back of my mind, I'm not sure that it would be, since each campaign has a lot of advanced and advancing technology, so character creation is actually an evolutionary process. But I'm speaking casually here, and I can ask if any face/any birthplace will someday be as option.

And again, if the request is to give everyone who purchases any single campaign the opportunity to create any appearance from any of the three campaigns, well, I'm sure if you stop and think about it, that's just not good business, and we do have to think about things like that, particularly since we are not and will not be charging a monthly fee.

Very nice of you to ask.

A bit of a follow up question; Do Jeff Strain, Mike O'Brian and the other Anet guys read fan forums and play the game?

Do you think that community questions each friday will return? I miss that.

I love you gailie.

TsunamiZ · Oct 02, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

What Gaile is saying, and I completely agree, is that if you want a Tyrian, Canthan, or Elonian look, then simply start your character in those respective areas. If you have all three games, then you have access to all faces/hair options, you're only limited to which starting area you'll end up in.

The starting areas are just a little push out the door. The rest of the continents are where it's really at, and that you'll have complete free reign with your new character. Tyria has the largest "starting area" since it not only encompasses Pre-Searing, but Ascalon and North Shiverpeaks, effectively. But there, you can get run if you're trying to get to a different continent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

My guess is its because of the new "animated" faces.

It would take alot more to store information about an animated face, compared to a static one. So their is bound to be less faces in Nightfall.

Plus their probably just running out of ideas.

I agree though, that they should combine existing face and hairstyles with new ones on the creation menu and just build up the collection as they go.

That information already exists in the servers, so it wouldnt add to it.

They only issue would be amending the existing faces to move.

i dont want to be forced to make a prophecies character and then have to travel to elona. that's is just grinding work. i own both prophecies + factions. currently i've only made phrophecies characters, due to the lack of appearance options in factions--and i beat factions with the prophecies characters. i can not create a factions character that is on the same appeal level as my prophecies characters. not only does factions characters lack appearance options, but their quality isn't as good. plus the assassin run cycle animation looks very akward and amateurishly done. the ritualist faces all look to similar and unappealing and they all wear the same boring "grandma" dresses. overall, factions character creation was horrible compared to prophecies.

the main reason for mixing all face / hair options from all chapters that you own is to exponentially increase the character appearance combinations. and on a gameplay point of view, the current restrictive chapter limitations or face / hair options limits the enjoyment of the game, especially since you can already create characters in any chapater that can look like they come from tyria, cantha, elona based on skin / hair color.

as for the face animation of previous faces before nightfall, that is already done--since people will be using prophecies and factions characters in nightfall as well. their lips will have to move.

Sable Phoenix · Oct 02, 2006, 11:08 PM // 23:08

Alterations to the faces isn't really the concern of the OP nor the topic (despite the whole ethnocentrism/aesthetics derailment) of this thread, Gaile. It's the slowly narrowing selection we have available per chapter that is the problem.

If the cross-chapter faces won't happen (and if you already own the appropriate chapter I don't see why it shouldn't, but I've also learned that lots of things in game design defy common sense), then we need more options within the chapters. How many options do the Factions professions have for character faces and hairstyles compared to Prophecies? None have more than half, and Nightfall is even fewer. Obviously, this does not make the players happy, and rightfully so. In subsequent chapters, Factions and Nightfall included, we should at least have as many different faces and hairstyles to choose from as we had in Prophecies.

arcanemacabre · Oct 03, 2006, 12:03 AM // 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

You're missing the point. The point is some players want more variety during the Character creation process.

I don't just want to make a Prophecy character, and then travel to Elonia. I can already do that.

I want the option to make an Elonian faced character in Prophecy, with Faction hair (since I own all three chapters).

And/Or getting rid of Profession specific choices would also help variety.

Alright, I agree with you about hair choices. I think all hair choices should be available. That only makes sense that anyone can have any hair choice they want. However, I still think it's prefectly fine to start your character in the continent the face is native to.

We identify each by our faces IRL, and when I see a Canthan face, I know automatically where that character was 'born'. I think it's nice, I think it promotes a sense of nationalism. The face is very important as it is a marker of where 'our families' came from.

TsunamiZ · Oct 03, 2006, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Alright, I agree with you about hair choices. I think all hair choices should be available. That only makes sense that anyone can have any hair choice they want. However, I still think it's prefectly fine to start your character in the continent the face is native to.

We identify each by our faces IRL, and when I see a Canthan face, I know automatically where that character was 'born'. I think it's nice, I think it promotes a sense of nationalism. The face is very important as it is a marker of where 'our families' came from.

who really cares where a character is actually born in the game? it doesn't matter where its actually born. if you see a character that looks caucasian, asian, middle eastern / african, you will automatically assume where they're from--regardless if it if was actually made from that expansion. there is no gameplay benefit to which continent where a character is actually made--other than the current appearance restriction which makes it seem like a benefit. it matters MUCH more to the majority of people to have a wide range of character appearance combinations.

TsunamiZ · Oct 03, 2006, 12:47 AM // 00:47

...if guild wars actually planned well to restrict character appearances of caucasian, asian, middle eastern, african--they would have limited the skin and hair color choices in each chapter. but as it stands now, it's a fantasy game. so this last-minute restriction on ethnicities based on faces is worthless, and now only limits the possibilities in gameplay.